First of all, I want to iterate my previous statements that both Granny and I are professing Christians; in our lives we do our human best to follow the teachings of the Christ. ( In her own peculiar way, so does the hellraising Gadfly). Neither Granny nor I are anti-God, anti-Jesus, anti-Christian, anti-religion. I will state most unequivocally that I am anti-fundie as I believe that their teachings are contrary to those of Jesus and they err in calling themselves followers of Christ - Christians. I believe that they are deceivers and liars and have done more than than any anti-christ to turn people away from Christianity.
As an example of how they distort the truth to deceive the faithful, I submit the following articles. Please refresh your memory of the HR1592 legislation posted by Granny by clicking on the link below. Granny included excerpts for easy perusal:Is America Burning - a Forum To Discuss Issues: And More on the Fundies - HR 1592
Continuing, here is a copy and paste newsletter from Dobson's pet poodle, head of the FRC:
Hate Crimes Laws: Censoring the Church and Silencing ChristiansLearn What the Federal Thought Police Have in Mind for You
Hate Crimes Laws: Censoring the Church and Silencing ChristiansJune 1
Advocates of a sweeping national "hate crimes" law are on the verge of victory in the U.S. Congress. With massive funding from the homosexual lobby, these advocates are moving one step closer to the day when the federal government will be able to investigate, and punish, politically incorrect speech and thoughts.
Think "it can't happen here"? In October 2004, a small group of Christians, now known as the "Philadelphia 11," were arrested and spent a night in jail for preaching the Gospel
at a "gay pride" event. They were charged with a "hate crime" under Pennsylvania law.[**WA: more on this]
Though the case was ultimately dismissed, the Christians had no support from the ACLU and other self-described champions of free speech.
More and more, the political left is protecting the First Amendment rights only of speakers they agree with.Hate crimes laws now threaten free speech and religious liberty
nationwide. They have the potential to "shut down churches and send pastors to prison for simply reading a part of the Bible,"
as Dr. D. James Kennedy has warned.
Family Research Council, along with Coral Ridge Ministries, invites you to order a copy of our provocative new video, "Hate Crimes Laws": Censoring the Church and Silencing Christians. This program, which I had the honor to host, features shocking examples of how hate crimes laws trample free speech, muzzle broadcasters, and intimidate pastors in country after country.For a limited time, with a donation of any amount, you can obtain this 40-minute video and discover how even the Bible is being deemed "hate" literature
The time has come for every citizen to take action. Violent crimes are despicable, and their perpetrators deserve swift and certain punishment. But the purpose of "hate crime" laws is to attribute violence to certain ideas as a way of attacking and ultimately outlawing those ideas, among them, that homosexual conduct is wrong and unhealthy.
If hate crime laws proliferate, the freedom to speak one's mind will be limited to those who celebrate and promote homosexuality
. Please click here to order your copy of Censoring the Church and Silencing Christians. Watch it and share it with your neighbors, family, and friends. Our freedom to speak is the bedrock of our political liberties. Help us spread the word.Censoring the Church and Silencing Christians
P.S. The American left knows it's politically hard to oppose any bill that says it's about stopping "hate crimes." This power grab in Congress is not about prosecuting crimes, however, it's about punishing thoughts. With our new video, produced with Coral Ridge Ministries, you will understand the real agenda behind this massive power shift to Washington. Please order your copy today, then forward this message to anyone else who wants to understand the real agenda behind the new federal "hate crimes" bill. Thank you and God bless you.
Family Research Council: 801 G Street N.W. Washington, D.C. 20001
Does a scan of the provisions in HR1592 even remotely resemble the dangers Tony Perkins warns of? The FRC sends out these newsletters to Christian subscribers and churches. Church pastors, either willing followers or dupes of the fundies, in turn preach these distortions of the truth from their pulpits to the congregants, who believe them implicitly. I doubt that one in a thousand takes the time and trouble to research the issue and discover the real truth for themselves.
Re: the "Philadelphia 11" :
In a nutshell, gay folk in Philadelphia obtained all legal permits necessary to block off several streets in order to hold a gay affair (something like a big block-party/demonstration). The anti-gay bunch did NOT get permits but were allowed in despite the gay folk's request to the city to forbid their entry. The anti-gays were not denied any of their rights.
The story, according to all the sites I researched, was that these loving Christians, concerned for the immortal souls of their fellow men living in sin and otherwise doomed to hell, merely prayed, read the Bible and passed out pamphlets to the crowd of gays. The mean old police harassed them, arrested them and threw them in jail for exercising their right of free speech.
There are always two sides to every story so I researched the incident. Most of the sites I pulled up were by various religious organizations and all told the same pitiful tale. In general, the Philadelphia 11 were depicted as virtual holy martyrs, cruelly persecuted by the gay-protecting police and robbed of their right of free speech.
Eventually I found reports of the other side of the coin. These meek and mild Christians, dedicated to saving the souls of the sinful gays, came equipped with a bull horn, signs like the ones below, interfered with the flow of foot traffic of the crowds and disrupted the gays' programs. Gay people, having all the emotional responses as other people, were offended and annoyed, especially when the anti-gays' bull horn drowned out their stage program. Some encircled the "Christians" clearly demonstrating their displeasure.
The police, fearing a riot was in the offing, did NOT arrest the Christians nor silence them, but at that point ordered them to move to another location WITHIN the blocked off area in order to separate them from the irate gays. These loving Christians, overflowing with love of their fellow man, refused to move, at least one lay down on the street, and they continued to block the street. (Even though the street was blocked off to motor vehicle traffic, it needed to be clear for foot traffic for the legally authorized participants). Their defiant refusal to obey the law resulted in them being arrested, a few were handcuffed, they were hauled off to jail and charged with a variety of offenses. Traditionally, the police take a dim view of disobedience under any circumstances and especially when citizens are getting riled up and a possible riot is being incited. Police dislike riots.
The Philadelphia 11 were not as innocent as their defenders would have the public believe. You may do a search on them and find a plentitude of sites decrying their ill treatment. For a more balanced view, see " Philly, San Diego Rulings on First Amendment Claims of Anti-Gay Demonstrators" at http://newyorklawschool.typepad.com/leonardlink/2007/
For a gay person's view, "FOF Tries to Muddy The Hate Crime Legislation Vote" at
A third site is
(If the authorities were dedicated to incarcerating gay-bashers, Fred Phelps would be imprisoned for about forty lifetimes.)
Imagine another scenario: Several hundred African Americans, with legal authorization and within a blocked off section of a community, hold a rally celebrating the life of Dr. Martin Luther King. A group of KKKs or Neo-Nazis show up with signs, chanting their slogans and drowning out the speakers with bull horns. What would be the expected reaction of the African Americans? Think the haters might be trying to incite a riot? Or, turn it around: a few hundred KKKs and Neo-Nazis hold a rally and some African Americans show up and behave as described above. Is it likely such actions might instigate ill feelings?
These articles are quite sufficient to demonstrate how the fundies distort the truth of events and even outright LIE!! Granny, now what was that scripture about lying? Maybe the fundies need to study it again.
Re: Granny's post immediately below. So far I haven't found the response of the fundies to that tidbit but as soon as I do, I'll post it.
Uh-huh! Sounds like that bunch of fundys might be adopting a few of old Fred-baby's tactics. Can you imagine what a howling mess it would have caused if any of the gays had actually walloped one of them? Talk about holy martyrs! From all I've heard and read about that Jesus dude's teaching (and what you advise, Old Woman) bellering through bull horns and making a hulabaloo is not the way he taught to lead people to live good lives. I'm with you, Old Woman. I don't give a big grey rat's ass what agreeing adults do in their private lives and I don't know why those fundies make such a big deal about it. Ain't God supposed to be the one to judge if people have done something wrong? What right do they have to judge if the gays are bad or good people? Most the gays I ever knew were just as good as straight people. Some better.
Sunday, June 17, 2007 6:49:00 AM
Labels: Free Speech and Harassment