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Skyline - Houston, Texas

Tuesday, August 21, 2007

No ! No ! Not the Fundies !

[WA: IF this is indeed true, why would training be given for martial law UNLESS it is anticipated? If it is true, it also demonstrates the increase in power and involvement of the Fundies in government - millions to call upon as enforcers.]

Feds Train Clergy To "Quell Dissent" During Martial Law


Posted by Adam Howard at 12:55 PM on August 17, 2007.

Pastors and other religious representatives could become secret police enforcers who teach their congregations to "obey the government."
Freaky News Report About Clergy Used In US Martial Law

(WA:ignore the box above with "Go" ; I couldn't delete it)

The video (above-top) is a shocking KSLA news report which confirms that so-called "Clergy Response Teams" are being trained to by our federal government to "quell dissent" in the event of a declaration of martial law. Pastors and other religious representatives could become who teach their congregations to "obey the government" and how to participate in property and firearm seizures, mass vaccination programs and forced relocation.

[WA:"property...seizures" - law already in place against "traitors" (Bush definitions of them); "vaccination programs" - don't have much info on that yet; "forced relocation" - move citizens to other areas and/or detention (concentration) camps, and don't believe all those camps are for illegal aliens as the government claims. I will post on camps later]

According to Prison

The first directive was for Pastors to preach to their congregations Romans 13, the often *taken out of context* bible passage that was used by Hitler to hoodwink Christians into supporting him, in order to teach them to "obey the government" when martial law is declared.
Pastors were told that they would be backed up by law enforcement in controlling uncooperative individuals and that they would even lead SWAT teams in attempting to quell resistance.
[WA: you want to be controlled by Fundies?]
Though some doubted the accuracy of this report at the time due to its fundamentally disturbing implications, the story has now been confirmed by a KSLA 12 news report, in which participating clergy and officials admit to the existence of the program.

It was related to the Pastors that quarantines, martial law and forced relocation were a problem for state authorities when enforcing federal mandates due to the "cowboy mentality" of citizens standing up for their property and second amendment rights as well as farmers defending their crops and livestock from seizure.
It was stressed that the Pastors needed to preach subservience to the authorities ahead of time in preparation for the round-ups and to make it clear to the congregation that "this is for their own good."


Tagged as: federal government, martial law, clergy, civil liberties

Adam Howard is the editor of PEEK.

Return to Video »

WA: So what does Romans 13 say? The following is rather long even though edited but it shows how the clergy twists scrioture in order to deceive the faithful, convincing them that God appoints governments and they should be loyal and dutiful even to corrupt and evil governments; they are doing the will of God to obey and collaborate with a despotic government.

Romans 13 (New International Version)

Submission to the Authorities
1Everyone must submit himself to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God.
2Consequently, he who rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves. 3For rulers hold no terror for those who do right, but for those who do wrong. Do you want to be free from fear of the one in authority? Then do what is right and he will commend you. 4For he is God's servant to do you good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword for nothing. He is God's servant, an agent of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer. 5Therefore, it is necessary to submit to the authorities, not only because of possible punishment but also because of conscience. 6This is also why you pay taxes, for the authorities are God's servants, who give their full time to governing. 7Give everyone what you owe him: If you owe taxes, pay taxes; if revenue, then revenue; if respect, then respect; if honor, then honor.

[WA: This is the scripture that BuchCo and the Fundies use to brainwash the faithful into cooperating and submitting to the government. Even an unlawful or despotic government. Re: ** "taken out of context" : understand the situation that existed when Paul wrote this letter to the Churches.
Imperial Rome had conquered the Jews and occupied their homeland. The Jews did not appreciate this. They were an independent and fractious people, not easy to subjugate. They were prone to demonstrations, riots, insurrections and continuous rebellion against Rome. Each time the Romans arrested and killed off one group of freedom fighters (regarded as insurgents and terrorists by Rome. :-) ) several more sprung up. The Jews were a collossal pain to the Roman authorities and they proceeded to crack down on the populace.

At first the Romans viewed Christians as a sect of Judaism. Later, they separated Christians and Jews in their views and at some point began to actively persecute Christians. This did not mean that they became fond of the Jews, however. The Jews were adept at annoying the Roman government. Jews and Christians were viewed with suspicion and regarded as troublemakers.

The Romans had no love for the Jews or Christians and Paul had good reason to discourage dissent if Christianity was to survive. Roman law and Roman military dealt harshly with seditious individuals and groups.

Paul's letters to the Churches were written a few years after 54 A.D. and taught them how to follow the Christ, how to live properly and to encourage the fledgling churchs' congregants. Considering the burden of persecution, suspicion and harsh punishment under which they labored, this letter of Paul's appears to be advising them to be quiet, lie low, obey the law and authorities, don't make waves. Be good little boys and girls or the Romans will destroy you - and the budding religion with you. In addition, Paul had to be very circumspect in his letters. He had to avoid even a whiff of sedition in case his letters were reported or fell into the hands of Roman authorities. It was a wise protection for himself and the churches to advocate obedience to the law. Otherwise the early churches could be utterly crushed.
Also Paul taught that vengeance and retribution was God's province, so don't do evil for evil (don't rebel), let God sort 'em out and zap them. Do everything the Romans want you to do, and survive! The Christians of that era believed that Jesus would return very soon as a conquering king, establish his kingdom and they would therefore be rid of the Roman rule.

I question the translation of Paul's use of the word "god" in his letters. The Roman emperor was also declared a god; was Paul exercising satire here in addition to being very circumspect?

The Government and BushCo choose to use this letter of Paul's as applicable to modern times., to encourage passive acceptance of a restrictive government and to make them believe they will be doing God's work against the evil of dissent by acting on the government's behalf.

I think the next lines in Paul's letter belies this belief, that it was written for that era ONLY.
Paul expresses his conviction that "our salvation is nearer now than when we first believed". He concluded that Jesus' return was imminent. "The night (dark times of Roman rule) is nearly over; the day (return of Jesus) is almost here." This minister conveniently interprets the "night" to mean Paul's era and the "day" to mean today's time. ("Paul speaks of the present age as ‘night’ and the future age of restoration as ‘day.’") Since the early Christians believed Jesus would return during their lifetime, how could "day" have mean 2000 years in
the future?

Scripture continued:
11And do this, understanding the present time. The hour has come for you to wake up from your slumber, because our salvation is nearer now than when we first believed. 12The night is nearly over; the day is almost here.
WA: How do the Fundies justify applying this to today's time? What do they teach the faithful? You aren't going to like it. Read on.

Excerpted from
Christian Obligations

This passage in Romans 13 is of vital importance to the readers of the 20th century as well. In many countries of the world, it is expected that the individual citizen will make every effort to cheat the government out of its taxes. On April 15th in our country, there is much the same mentality. Such cannot, or at least should not, be the case of the Christian.

In America today, there seems to be the mentality that the only kind of government of which our Lord can approve is a democracy. In a day when new countries are established by revolution almost daily, we Christians must have our heads on straight to deal biblically with these situations.

This chapter has much to say to us by way of implication. Just one of the issues which Paul deals with by way of inference is that of capital punishment. Let us look to the Scriptures for a Word from God on these vital issues.

[WA: laying the groundwork to accept government execution of dissenters ("traitors") and for the Fundies to execute "sinners" (homosexuals, adulterers, non-virgin single women, rebellious sons, etc..).

(1) The Precept (v. la). Paul’s instruction is very direct and uncomplicated: “Let every person be in subjection to the governing authorities” (Romans 13:1a).99 By this it is clear that Christians are to be in subjection to their government, national or local.

(2) The Premise (v. 1b). The reason why such a command can be given is found in the second part of verse 1: “For there is no authority except from God and those which exist are established by God” (Romans 13:1b). God is the source of all authority. The government authorities, then, exist by the authority granted them by the supreme authority, God Himself.

Now I want you to observe this verse closely, for it reveals to us what the basis is on which a government should be acknowledged and obeyed. It is not by virtue of its characteristics, whether it be democratic, autocratic or whatever. A government is not legitimate and duly constituted because its form precisely meets our preferences. A government is to be acknowledged and obeyed by virtue of its existence. “… those (governments) which exist are established by God.” This means that the government of Red China is ordained by God. It means that the government in Russia is established by the authority vested to it by God. This even means that the Nazi regime in Germany was there by the will (decretive) of God

[WA: Here, laying the groundwork for acceptance of a tyrannical, despotic, fascist government. It's "God's will".God ordained it. Bush says God ordained him to do the things he does and "God talks to me".]

I want it to be very clear that there are no loopholes in this first verse. Every soul is to be in subjection to human government; any and every government, by virtue of its existence is, de facto, the government to which we must submit

[WA: Laying it on thick. The anticipate a tyrannical government and brainwash the faithful to submit because it's God's will.]

(3) The Principle Involved (v. 2). The principle of Paul’s argument is apparent: “Therefore he who resists authority has opposed the ordinance of God; and they who have opposed will receive condemnation upon themselves” (Romans 13:2). For a Christian (or any other person) to resist government is to resist the One from Whom authority has been granted. If God has ordained the existence of a government and we disobey it, we resist not only government, but God. For this we will suffer judgment.

[WA: Laying the groundwork for Christians to view dissidents as evil-doers. Dissenters will be judged and condemned by the government, but he interprets it to mean by God]

(4) The Purpose of Government (vv. 3-4). The reason for our obedience to government is not arbitrary, but is found in God’s purpose for government.

For rulers are not a cause of fear for good behavior, but for evil. Do you want to have no fear of authority? Do what is good, and you will have praise from the same; for it is a minister of God to you for good. But if you do what is evil, be afraid; for it does not bear the sword for nothing; for it is a minister of God, an avenger who brings wrath upon the one who practices evil (Romans 13:3-4).

[WA: " bear the sword" = execute.]

There is no reason for the Christian to fear government for its purpose is to punish evil-doers and to reward those who do good. Since the Christian is to practice what is good and avoid evil, there should be no conflict between the Christian and government.

[WA: So submit to tyranny, you sheep! It's God's will!]

In verses 3 and 4 there are several inferences which are important to the Christian.

(1) There is a separation of function implied between the church and state. The government official is described as a minister of God, but only in the sense that he serves the purpose of God by restraining evil and rewarding good. The Christian is also a minister of God; not a minister of wrath (judgment), but of mercy (the gospel). Each has its legitimate sphere of activity. In fact, when the minister of government does his job well, it facilitates the minister of the gospel (cf. 1 Timothy 2:1-3).

(2) We learn that fear of punishment is a deterrent to evil. “Do you want to have no fear of authority? Do what is good …” (Romans 13:3b). Some are saying today that the fear of punishment has no effect on whether or not someone will commit a crime. Paul says that fear of punishment is a deterrent.

(3) We can see a somewhat subtle argument in support of capital punishment. “… for it does not bear the sword for nothing …” (Romans 13:4c). The bearing of a sword by civil magistrates symbolized their authority and, as well, their right to exercise the penalty of death.101, 102, 103 It seems likely that such is the sense implied here.

In Genesis chapter 9, God instituted the death penalty (verse 6). Some would argue that capital punishment, though practiced in the Old Testament economy, surely can find no place in our age. But the words of our Lord Jesus Himself vindicate this responsibility of government:

Pilate therefore said to Him, “You do not speak to me? Do you not know that I have authority to release You, and I have authority to crucify You?” Jesus answered, “You would have no authority over Me unless it had been given you from above; for this reason he who delivered Me up to you has the greater sin.” (John 19:10-11).

When our Lord stood before Pilate He expressly stated that the power of death was within the authority of civil government. Indeed, this authority was granted ‘from above.’

[WA: Pontius Pilate's authority was given to him "from above" by his superiors, the Roman government, but this is twisted to mean by God.]

The real issue behind the matter of capital punishment is the character of God. Those who reject the possibility of civil government taking the life of a human being try to convince us either “that the God of the Old Testament is not the same as in the New Testament, or that God has somehow changed. But God is unchanging and He hates sin. His holiness demands a payment for sin, and in this life human government has been charged with the responsibility of avenging evil (v. 4).

(1) Motivation for Obedience (v. 5). In verse 5, we are given two reasons for civil obedience. The first has already been explained; it is the motivation of fear of punishment. This is the primary motivation of the unbeliever. We would see a great change in public morality if the legal penalty for sin were removed. Indeed, this is precisely what is occurring in our time.

[WA: laying the groundwork for establishing "legal penalties for sin" to motivate the unbelievers not to sin. All you potential sinners toe the line according to the Fundies' moral standards.]


Even when fear of punishment is no factor, I do not desire to grieve my heavenly Father by civil disobedience. [WA: Do you hear that, Sheeple? Civil disobedience grieves God! Dissent hurts God's feelings.]


(2) The Bottom Line—Pay Up (vv. 6-7). It seems to me that the bottom line of much of Scripture seems to find its way to our wallets.

[Especially as interpreted by many ministers - give, give, donate, tithe, "send me...."]

In verses 6 and 7, the apostle inform us that we are not only obliged to obey, but to pay governing authorities: “For because of this you also pay taxes, for rulers are servants of God, devoting themselves to this very thing. Render to all what is due them: tax to whom tax is due; custom to whom custom; fear to whom fear; honor to whom honor” (Romans 13:6-7). [WA:In other words, obey the law - and don't let the Romans condemn you. Survive this dark time.]

Just as a minister of the gospel is worthy of his hire (cf. 1 Corinthians 9), so a minister of God in civil government is deserving of financial remuneration. Government officials are devoted to the maintenance of justice and peace [WA: stop laughing! This guy is serious!], so they must be financially supported. This support is derived from taxes, both indirect (tax) and direct (custom).

[WA: So don't gripe about any grevious taxes a fascist government may crush you with. God ordains it. It is our duty under God to support those who insure "justice and peace". Right!]

Beyond the mere payment of taxes and external obedience, there is the need for a submissive spirit expressed by the giving of respect and honor to civic officials. We should render both respect and honor to civic officials by virtue of their position. [WA: No matter what kind of evil slimeballs they are; their position demands respect and honor?]

(3) A Lesson in Submission. There is here, I believe, a lesson to be learned about submission as it is required of children to their parents and wives for their husbands. This submission is one based upon position and not on personal writ. This submission is not primarily motivated by the one to whom we submit, but is an act of obedience and submission to our Lord Himself.

[WA: He just HAD to throw in that submissive wife bit. Man is the authority in the home! God wants wives to submit even to the most abusive, lazy, drunken, irresponsible spend thrift husband. The Fundies demand it. They know that some men are unfit to be husbands so to counter women's and decent men's objections, they decree that submission is ordained by God. Yes, well, God also said for "men to love their wives as Christ loves the Church" but they don't obssess on that.]

In the light of our Lord’s return, we have two pressing responsibilities:

(1) To submit to civil government. This responsibility can be summarized in three words: (a) Obey—keep the Law. (b) Pay—your taxes. (c) Pray—for those in authority (I Timothy 2:1-3).

(2) We are to love our ‘neighbor,’ and by doing this fulfill the requirements of the Law (cf. Romans 8:4).


It is apparent that Paul has written during a time when government was fulfilling its responsibility of restraining evil and rewarding righteousness. [WA: Does he know anything about the history of the Roman Empire and it's treatment of the subjugated peoples? Was the Roman government "restraining evil and rewarding righteousness"? Some of the Caesars were evil personified.] But what of the times when this is not the case? In view of the general nature of Paul’s exhortation, we will ask and answer several critical questions.

(1). Are there times when a Christian should disobey government?

Yes, if the government commands a Christian to do what is clearly contrary to God’s Word. When one disobeys, he must nevertheless submit to the punishment which government prescribes for this disobedience. Since government has the delegated authority of God, government’s authority is subordinate to God’s orders if they differ. [WA: But you can bet your bippy that the Fundies will teach the faithful that everything BushCo's government does is God's will.]

(2) Should a government become corrupt and cease to fulfill its proper functions (i.e., to restrain evil and encourage good works), should the Christian engage in revolution to attempt its overthrow?

Instances can be found in the Old Testament in which the Lord instructs an individual to rebel against the existing government and overthrow it. ... To use these instances as arguments for rebellion today we would need to be consistent and require a direct revelation from God to do so. [WA: So if any dissenters want to rebel, they must await a revelation from God. Is God supposed to "talk" to them like He "talks" to Bush?]

We must also remember that God uses evil governments, as well as good ones, for His purposes (cf. Habakkuk 1:6-11, Exodus 7:1-7, Amos 6:14). Romans 13:1 seems to say that any government which exists is, by virtue of its existence, ordained of God. To resist any existing government, by attempting to overthrow it (if the above assumption is true), is to resist God (Romans 13:2). [WA: here he actually waffles regarding his previous assertions that all governments are ordained by God and resistance to them is resisting God.]

God has no difficulty in performing His will apart from our assistance......[WA: I would not think that a Supreme Being would need man's assistance! So why do you Fundies collaborate with Bush, the Neocons and Zionists to bring about the conditions on earth that you CLAIM will "help" Jesus return to earth?]
It is God’s desire that we live a “tranquil and quiet life” (1 Timothy 2:2, 3). Revolution does not lead to tranquillity.

(4) What should a Christian do when the government to which he is to be subject persecutes Christians unjustly?

The entire Book of 1 Peter is written with this very issue in mind..... Peter’s example is that of servants, who are to be in subjection to their masters, even the cruel ones (2:18). It is only when suffering unjustly that it is pleasing to God (v. 20) [WA: will someone better versed in theology please explain why it pleases God when His children suffer unjustly?]....The thrust of chapters 2, 3, and 4 of Peter’s first epistle is that we are to suffer patiently when persecuted unjustly....[WA: Just endure like addlebrained sheep? Never protest against a "God orrdained" corrupt government?]

(3) Is it wrong for a Christian to be in politics?

In the Old Testament many men such as Daniel, Isaiah, and Jeremiah (not to mention the kings) were involved in the politics of their day. ... In the Old Testament theocracy, government and religion (church and state) were not separated as in the New Testament. The issue is one of priorities and personal convictions ultimately, as well as the individual leading of the Lord. [WA: the Fundies are determined to end the separation of Church and State, to establish a theocracy. Any Fundie, present or future, will roll his eyes heavenward and piously declare, "The Lord led me into politics!" Like our infamous DeLay?]


The Future Was Yesterday said...
GMTA, it appears. I just posted about nearly the same thing, but will go pull it back down, link to this, then put it back up.
Monday, August 27, 2007 1:32:00 AM
betmo said...
yeah- linked too. i have nothing to say but sigh.
Monday, August 27, 2007 8:19:00 AM
Ingrid said...
If I see Alex (from Prison Planet, he lives in my neighbourhood), I'll ask him some more specifics. And TUA's noted post on for instance the 'Left Behind' video is disturbing. It blows your mind away that's for sure.Machiavelli would put his stamp on approval on this one and that's is not a compliment.Ingrid
Tuesday, August 28, 2007 9:55:00 AM



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